HTML5 Player support

[DarkSimonus]

I was wondering if there is a way to implement HMTL5 player instead of JW/Flow. More and more websites drop flash in favour to HTML5. However from what I need all HTML5 based players requite at least 2 video sources. How hard would it be to replace current players with a new one?

[mephisto]

Please get verified first.

It won't be all that easy and the html5 standard is still not officially "released" yet. There's still a lot of incompatibilities that will need to be resolved first. Those experimenting with it are just doing that: experimenting. All major sites are still running on Flash and I don't see that change soon, youtube has already announced so. They will offer html5 as an extra option for specific devices/browsers but not more. The core site will remain Flash based.
It depends on the video source and what exactly you want with it. Too many browsers don't support html5 yet, so you want all users with an older browser, or one that doesn't support html5 yet, to look at a blank div? It will take a lot of browser testing and stuff to get this right. And you will need more than 1 video source link, that's correct, one for the flv and one for the html5 format that will win the current format war (ogg/H.264/VP8/etc) None of this has been decided yet, and it won't be anytime soon, so it will be a wait and see.
Unless you want an ipod/ipad only site.

[DarkSimonus]

Please get verified first.

On the way .. just needed to ask a question

And you will need more than 1 video source link, that's correct, one for the flv and one for the html5 format that will win the current format war

From what I know most browsers support MP4/h.264 except for Firefox which stays with OGV/theora. I want to replace default player with http://videojs.com or http://darkonyx.web-anatomy.com/en, so for the best compatibility I need at least two separate sources. I've asked my question, because in most CMS you can only provide a single video source or you need to rip half of the script to do this.

Thank you for your time!

[mephisto]

I think you're running ahead of the facts a bit here. "Most browsers" is a bit vague, Firefox and Opera are already out, or so it seems, and will go for OGG. Chrome, the fastest growing browser, is questionable now that google has their own codec, IE is still undecided despite Microsoft's involvement in H.264, Safari will of course go with Apple, and there's a lot of $$$ at stake so who knows what the final choice will be. And there are plenty of other players - How many browsers are there after all? - even non browsers, and all kinds of other "connected" devices that will have their say too. From mobile phones to TVs. This is a huge industry, decisions like this usually take years. Remember VHS vs BETAmax? It will be similar.

And you don't even want to look at your analytics to know how many people are still using hopelessly outdated browsers, that won't support anything at all. They will easily be well over 50% of your visitors, no matter what site you run.

To be honest, this is gonna be such a drag if you don't host your video files yourself, that only the big boys like youtube, dailymotion etc can actually go along with this for now. They convert all the files on their servers in their data centers and that's it. Try that at home! Or even finding 2 links for every video. Now that direct access to video files, even flv only, is completely shut off almost everywhere. You're welcome to try, I don't even consider it.

Remember that video files are copyrighted. Do you really think that the major record labels are ever gonna allow a direct link to an mp4 file, which is what you need for html5 video, while they are trying to sell their videos on iTunes at the same time? Forget it. It won't happen. Not in music videos and other copyrighted video at least. That is probably why youtube already announced that they will stick with Flash. And myspace has never even uttered a single word about html5 either. You can protect flash, even with rtmp: etc, but you can not protect html5 video files at all. Youtube just launched a video rental service, connect the dots. There's more paid video services around. If they would give direct access to their video files, required for html5, all this collapses overnight. The only one benefitting will be the bittorrent sites!

HTML5 will be the next Web 2.0, lots of hot air and loads of nonsense.

[mephisto]

And not to forget, dailymotion, youtube etc they all have ads in their flash players now. Do you seriously think they will deprive themselves of that revenue? While most of them are struggling to survive as it is right now.

From a technological point of view html5 video sounds great, from a purely practical point of view, forget it. The corporations that run the planet will never go along with it.

[DarkSimonus]

I think you're running ahead of the facts a bit here. "Most browsers" is a bit vague, Firefox and Opera are already out, or so it seems, and will go for OGG

Yea, I've already mentioned about FF and Opera going for OGV/Theora

rome, the fastest growing browser, is questionable now that google has their own codec, IE is still undecided despite Microsoft's involvement in H.264, Safari will of course go with Apple

Safari, Chrome and IE9 already supports MP4/H.264

So at the end you got OGV for FF/Opera nad MP4 for Safari/Chrome/IE9

ow many browsers are there after all? - even non browsers, and all kinds of other "connected" devices that will have their say too. From mobile phones to TVs.

I don't really think that anyone will start creating a new rendering engine just for a new TV. They will all mostly pick up webkit or gecko.

And you don't even want to look at your analytics to know how many people are still using hopelessly outdated browsers, that won't support anything at all. They will easily be well over 50% of your visitors, no matter what site you run.

Almost all HTML5 players provide Flash fallback for old browsers (e.g. http://darkonyx.web-anatomy.com/en/Features -> flash/html5 switch below the player) For now imho this is a perfect solution. I can even skip OGV format and use Flash fallback for FF/Opera. And I got the same interface across all devices.

To be honest, this is gonna be such a drag if you don't host your video files yourself, that only the big boys like youtube, dailymotion etc can actually go along with this for now. They convert all the files on their servers in their data centers and that's it.

I was thinking about AmazonS3 as my storage and FFMPEG for encoding videos - not sure if it's going to work, but we'll see.

That is probably why youtube already announced that they will stick with Flash

I think it was mostly because of codecs. Youtube uses pseudo-streaming + they hash urls. There is a lot of tools to pick up stream in fly. There is new API in Flash for DRM, but not sure if any big vendor already decided to use it (you need that flash media server as far as I remember)

ou seriously think they will deprive themselves of that revenue?

Wasn't Apple preparing their own ad-network designed for their devices?

From a technological point of view html5 video sounds great, from a purely practical point of view, forget it. The corporations that run the planet will never go along with it.

What a conspiracy theory - no, I don't think that those companies will protect flash that much. If users pick up HMTL5 over Flash.. they'll simply follow.

Anyway thanks guys for you time ... I hope I wasn't such a pain in the butt with my all doubts and questions! LOL

[mephisto]

Err.. corporations only protect their own copyright protected asses err assets. They don't care about flash nor html5. No conspiracy theory necessary. Simple fact. That is the major issue, not flash or html5. And the users won't have any say in it, just wait and see. It's the content owners that will decide this round.

Chrome "temporarily" supports MP4/H.264 as well as other codecs. While google is flexing it's muscles to get wider acceptance for their own codec.

Like I said, you're jumping to conclusions well ahead of any real decisions, or even a final release of html5, based on what is at best an experimental phase currently. Of course everybody trying to sell you an html5 player is trumpeting the blessings of the format. Been there, done that. We'll see if there will be anything for those players to play. They have no control over that. And that is what will make or break the format.

Code: Select all

There is new API in Flash for DRM

that is RTMP: myspace tried it...

Apple's own ad network is indeed for their own devices. And not much more. And even there they have already had serious problems with several major advertisers that pulled out because they are not willing to put up with Jobs' control freak attitude. What does that have to do with youtube, dailymotion, vevo and all the record labels making money from their music videos on non Apple devices? And all the other video makers running ads in their youtube vids? Those are the ones I was referring to, not Apple.

Let us know when your site is ready... we'll see then.